AI's Growing Influence in Today's Industries: A Chat with Jody Haneke

What happens when you combine the fascinating world of technology with the insights of Gen-Xer and Haneke Design owner, Jody Haneke? You get an eye-opening conversation about the rapid growth of AI and its impact on various industries, including real estate and healthcare. Join us as we discuss everything from the iPhone revolution to the potential use of AI in creating hyper-personalized experiences.

In this episode, we explore the many ways AI tools like chatGPT are being used for tasks like listing descriptions, blog posts, and SEO purposes.  However, we won't shy away from discussing the dangers of AI and the need for regulation to prevent erroneous conclusions based on data. Throughout the conversation, Jody shares her journey from selling beepers to building custom software and how the iPhone changed the game for her business.

As we look into the future, we delve into AI's impact on art and education, as well as its role in problem-solving and innovation. We discuss the many ways AI is shaping our world, including the potential ethical implications and the need for humans to still be involved in decision-making. Don't miss this insightful conversation with Jody Haneke, as we explore the ever-evolving world of technology and its impact on our lives.

Onward!

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Transcript

Andrew Hoek: 0:01

This is the Legacy Wealth Code podcast helping you build long term wealth and a lasting legacy to real estate investing tax strategies and motivational stories from some of the most successful and influential people out there. Here are your hosts real estate investor and entrepreneur, l Knotbaum, and real estate investor and attorney, Andrew Hoek.

Michael Notbohm: 0:22

Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Legacy Wealth Code podcast. This is Michael No Knotbaum. I'm here with my partner crime, Andrew Hoek. Hey guys, what's going on? And today we are honored to have a friend of mine, Jody Haneke, who owns Haneke Design. one of the premier marketing and tech based companies here in the Tampa Bay area started back in 2002. Jody and Old Soul graduated college in 1995, but we are honored to have you here today. Welcome to the podcast, Old Soul. How about?

Jody Haneke: 0:51

just like Gen X. Yeah, we'll go with that, i'll go with that.

Michael Notbohm: 0:54

All right, fair, fair. I mean. Plus, we're going to talk all this tech stuff today, so I mean you can't be that old.

Jody Haneke: 0:59

No, no, i can't Definitely. Like I said, the Gen X thing is interesting because that generation has seen the most change in technology. I mean, i remember records. I remember 8 tracks. I remember cassette tapes, i remember CDs, i remember the iPod, i remember Napster, iphone. You know what I mean. It's an unbelievable I think it's a great generation to be part of, because I have seen so much change in technology.

Michael Notbohm: 1:25

Well, think about it. I remember my first job. I was in high school. I sold beepers and then I worked for T-Mobile and I remember we got the first color screen phone and then we got the Razor, which was the flip phone, and then, of course, trying to sell internet to people on their phone. They were like why would I want the internet on my phone? It's so interesting. And now we're here.

Jody Haneke: 1:46

Yeah, well, i mean, that has a lot of parody to my story. As far as the company is concerned and what I've been doing prior to the iPhone coming out, we basically build custom software is what we do, and what we started off doing was mainly like websites and things of that nature. And then, prior to the iPhone coming out, we got hooked up with a friend of mine who has worked for a large text messaging company and they were doing mobile marketing on cell phones, which were flip phones, blackberries, things of that nature. Once he had asked us he said hey, these phones can access the web now And our clients are asking for things like. One of his clients was Target. We did a bunch of work for them And they're doing these mobile in-store sweepstakes, but they want the response message to have a store locator or view the products associated with this campaign. And he's like can you figure out how to do that? And I was like I guess so. And then we realized like it's not Holy cow.

Michael Notbohm: 2:44

we have this. imagine the opportunity.

Jody Haneke: 2:46

Yeah, It was crazy. It was hard too, because right now you have a smartphone, all the screen sizes are large and they all support JavaScript and all the fancy stuff. Back then, some flip phones didn't even support HTML. It was like this old Well, you'd text and you'd be like.

Michael Notbohm: 3:03

K was like four twice. It took you like 11 minutes to write one sentence. So now it's like and you're done.

Jody Haneke: 3:10

Yeah. So we figured that out and we were serving up these dynamic mobile microsites for text messaging campaigns. And then the iPhone came out and I was like oof, okay, i've seen this before. Being part of the whole dot com boom and subsequent bust, i did know that that was going to be a game changer and that's what got us into building true custom software. As we decided to go all in when the iPhone came out and have been kind of go to for iOS, android applications and now full stack, the whole thing.

Michael Notbohm: 3:42

Well, you think about, like I remember when the first iPhone I had I think I might even have had the first one period And then, like the next year it comes out and I was always like why would you get basically another phone? I just got this one a year ago but they've created like this model now, where every year or two you're always needing to get the new phone because technology has changed so much that the other one Yeah, it is amazing And that kind of slowed down a little bit more recently where, like, how much more powerful is this pocket can be?

Jody Haneke: 4:11

Super computer need to be. But I think the advancement on the photography side is probably one of the biggest new feature drivers of new phone adoption is that just I look at my daughter's Instagram. I mean obviously like if I could take a better picture I'm going to need a new phone, right? Yeah, so I think a lot of that is driving it.

Michael Notbohm: 4:29

Well, that's always with you. Yeah, You know, like if you need to take a picture, I always laugh when people are at the concerts and they're like videoing the whole concert, they're not actually watching any of it. I'm like when are you going to watch this again? Like you're here now, but Probably the minute they get home.

Speaker 4: 4:42

Exactly.

Michael Notbohm: 4:43

I don't think I've ever watched any video I've ever taken at a concert again.

Speaker 4: 4:46

Well, we were talking about the quality. that was it yesterday. You were filming that video and you're like it's not even the Yeah, it wasn't even the back camera. It's not even the back cameras, it's the front camera and the quality of that, i mean. It looks like a professional videographer.

Jody Haneke: 4:58

Yeah, I remember the days when the first digital camera came out and that was like early dot com days And I was partners in this company that were growing like crazy, And I remember somebody brought in a digital camera and we were looking at it and it was like the most pixelated little postage stamp and everyone's like this is the future. And like being an art school kid and all that and being into photography and processing my own photos and printing them and stuff. I was like no way, this isn't going to be the thing. Now here we are with insane capabilities as far as digital photography is concerned.

Michael Notbohm: 5:33

And the only thing that's still weird is if you have a friend that has an Android I don't feel like they're real people And the text is green or you send them a video and it's like the little tiny version of it.

Speaker 4: 5:43

It's like although I had a buddy that's dunked his in the pool like overnight and it still worked Yeah.

Michael Notbohm: 5:47

So yeah, so pretty much, i mean it's definitely like two gangs, yeah, like there's the Android gang and the iPhone gang. They'll never get along.

Jody Haneke: 5:55

They won't. Yeah, I mean we're on one group. We've excommunicated all the Android Right. Actually we forced somebody to buy an iPhone. Yeah, somebody got an iPhone specifically for our group text. It's a phone.

Michael Notbohm: 6:04

We're like dude, you can't be on our group text anymore if you don't get an iPhone.

Speaker 4: 6:07

Yeah, Jody, is there a part of you that misses kind of the purist side of that, like you said about going back and actually like hand developing photos?

Jody Haneke: 6:15

I mean, i think that art is art and creativity is creativity and there's multiple different outlets for that. I think the thing for me and you guys know this is I do crazy stuff. Like I own a company that harvests commercial stone crab, you know. Like you know, it's so the opposite of sitting in front of a computer. So I think I get my. I still get like all the rewards of building creative products and design, even if it is digital. But the things I miss more are like just working with my hands and being outside and stuff like that. I think that's the stuff that I really kind of go back to.

Michael Notbohm: 6:50

And it's probably frowned upon to smoke a cigar in the office.

Jody Haneke: 6:52

Yes, stone crabbing, you can smoke cigars all day, like six a day, yeah exactly, yeah.

Michael Notbohm: 6:57

So let's shift gears a little bit. You know, one thing we wanted to talk to you about today is, you know, obviously you're the tech guy, we're the real estate guys And I think that there's a huge shift with AI for everyone. And like, how fast it's happening is scaring a lot of people. I use it So, for example, i use chat GTP for all my listing descriptions. I've got a blog thing I think I was telling you about off off the off the air that writes me keyword rich blog posts and then post it on on my website for SEO purposes. I mean that's insane, that it's the stuff it spits out and it's like instantly. So like what do you think? I mean just seeing how much it's grown in to me it's. I'm sure you probably know how long it's been around, but it seems like maybe the last year where it's really like becoming a mainstream.

Jody Haneke: 7:46

Yeah, I mean, from what I've seen, i think a few years ago we were seeing trends towards chat, like just chat in general, right, like a lot of chat agents being integrated with websites right, yeah, they'll answer stuff Exactly. And we actually noticed also, like in healthcare, like we were trying to solve a problem on care management and we did some research and we we found out that, like the best, what like the best outcomes come from in care management when you have a loved one or a caregiver like asking you how you're doing or sending you a text, did you take your medication and we're tasked to design a user interface for care management and we're like this is chat, right, and that's the best mode in which we can help people interact with. So can our system act as the caregiver? right, and can the interface be more of a chat interface? And would that be better, especially for, you know, the aging population, the boomers and whatnot, and they're embraced chat fully.

Jody Haneke: 8:43

So that started happening, i think, a few years ago, where you just started to see people kind of take a step back and say, like can we create a simpler user interface that's more chat based? And then now you have something like chat GPT come along that supercharges that with seemingly intelligent responses. So, and a lot of that work that you're doing, i think is great because it's basically short-cutting a lot of research that you would do on your own. The problem is I think the problem is and we'll get over it is that people need to realize like this it's only as good as the data it's sourcing, and a lot of times that data can be bad, it can be misinterpreted. So you have this technology that's basically trying to look, feel and sound human in its responses And it might, and it might seem you might read it and be like, wow, that makes a lot of sense, but in fact it doesn't make any sense, right?

Michael Notbohm: 9:34

Right, like the stats it's spitting out, like man, this thing is smart and like none of it's accurate.

Jody Haneke: 9:38

Yeah, I've heard of that, Exactly A lot And you know, we know that recent story a month ago where the lawyer in New York got in trouble because he asked ChatGPT to create references to case law that he submitted to the court and like two of them were completely made up Like it. Just you know and I think you'll find you know like as an example. When I first started playing around with it, i asked it to write the ChatGPT to write my bio and it sounded awesome, but it said I went to the University of South Florida, which I didn't, and had a master's degree.

Speaker 4: 10:11

So I wonder where it found that information. Yeah, where's it pulling that from any?

Jody Haneke: 10:13

idea. I think again, it's trying to take existing data sources and reference different elements of it to come up with something that sounds reasonable. So I know that I've been to USF speaking at different events. I know there's probably press releases out there about that And I think it misconstrued that information with something else.

Michael Notbohm: 10:34

So think about like you know, like stock earnings come out right And you know they'll give out like their entire financial data, and no one I mean, i don't read it. I'm sure there's people that do, but you could ask it like, hey, what does this say? And it'll like instantly go through that and give you the data you want without you having to actually go through it.

Jody Haneke: 10:52

Yeah, i think that it's funny. I was just talking to a client about this earlier. A lot of the folks that we're working with are in these different industries, like healthcare or finance or real estate or logistics or whatever. I think you're going to see people want to like narrow the folk, like go with agents or bots that are limited in their ability to go out and look at all information, because I think a lot of the issues and the errors are coming by mashing two different pieces of information together that are, and making assumptions on what that means, what the meaning of that is, versus like, hey, if you're in finance or in your real estate, like, these are the databases that we want the agent to access, not anything more, not anything less. And the same thing like healthcare, but you can give it that prompt.

Jody Haneke: 11:33

Right, You could say only look in this particular data set, Yeah, but I mean as far as, like creating a product, like if we were to go and create a product for a client that incorporated a chat bot style feature where the user could not limit the search right. You know what I mean. We would want it all preconfigured and narrowed down to like providing this data from these sources, so that you can't tell somebody that they need to have an operation when in fact, skin disorder. Winding up with information that's doesn't isn't accurate.

Michael Notbohm: 12:07

Basically what happens when you go on WebMD you're like you're dead.

Jody Haneke: 12:10

My nose itches.

Michael Notbohm: 12:11

You probably have brain cancer or a cold, or you just got bit by a mosquito. It's one of the three and you're like man, this could. It's pretty wide range here.

Speaker 4: 12:20

Do you see that from a standpoint of like, like the small amount of errors that it is picking up and making? do you see that changing and improving over time as the technology continues to improve, or is that more something that you just have to narrow the funnel and the focus on?

Jody Haneke: 12:35

I think they'll only be able to improve that to a certain point. I think we're probably a little ways off before you can, in a general sense, not have to review the products that it exports in order to make sure that things are accurate, but it will get to the point also where, like, what is accurate Like I mean, that's the thing I struggle with too is like, if you're using, like, all the data that's been available on the internet since 2021 or even sooner, i can show you two pieces of data that seem like they're telling you what the answer is and they completely conflict each other. If you look at If you're watching CNN and Fox News.

Michael Notbohm: 13:15

Exactly So Same data, totally different perspective, i think.

Jody Haneke: 13:19

I mean, my prediction is that we'll see this used, incorporated, in a lot of different ways. I think any web asset or mobile asset where search is incorporated, you're going to see this as an alternate to search, so you'll be able to chat as opposed to search, and it will just be a better way to find an answer. So I think that's going to happen like across the board. So like, yeah, you can search Google for real estate listings, but you go into Zillow and it has a search feature too, right? So different search, different chat agents, different areas I think you're going to see that, as far as like having just one chat bot that knows everything about everything, that's going to be. I think that's going to be harder. I think what we're going to see more and I think Apple could wind up doing this where Siri's always been a big swing and a mess, right. I mean, the whole idea of Siri was like this is going to be this Jarvis-like thing where it's going to know who I am and it's going to be able to give me the responses I want. I think Apple has the opportunity to create something that you own, that's like on your device. It's your data, it's your personalized agent, it's going to start to understand. It's going to make mistakes, but it's going to correct itself, right. And so it's going to ask you like, hey, you know, or you're going to ask it, i need to, i need a coffee. Find me a coffee shop near me. Hey, there's two blocks away There is a Starbucks. And I'm going to say I hate Starbucks, never do that again.

Jody Haneke: 14:38

And it's going to be like okay, jody does not like Starbucks. Okay, so it's going to start to introduce other options. But, more importantly, it's going to use that inference that like why does Jodi not like Starbucks? Maybe it starts asking me some questions, right, like what is it about Starbucks, you know, and be like well, i don't, i'm not in alignment with their, their executive team.

Jody Haneke: 14:56

You know what I mean. I don't like the way they run the company. Oh well, what does that mean? Right? So now it's going to use like the personalization that seems like basic to create like a hyper personalized agent that's my assistant, that knows what I like, that can now start to really understand. And this also the problem. So that that's the plus side. The downside is, i think this is further. This is what's happening in social media, now with echo chambers, i think you're going to see the same thing happen, right? If you can have these bots that start to learn about you, that are going to be hyper-personalized which again I think it will be And it's going to know, like, where you, it's going to get you data that it thinks you'll think is correct, right?

Michael Notbohm: 15:37

So you're always seeing. You know like you might not like the executive team of Starbucks, but it may not refer you to like a fishing store because that executive team shares similar values as Starbucks.

Jody Haneke: 15:49

It's just going to serve you up things that are all with, like I said, within your echo chamber, i don't. I don't I see it becoming very much the same type of problem, just a new user interface. And I mean Google's coming a long way with their, with their solution too. Yeah, what's it called? Bard Bard, bard Bard? and they've got some very recent updates where I mean everyone's saying like, oh, this is going to be like the death of Google or whatever. But from what I've seen with what they're doing, they're just incorporating a. It's just going to be a better search. It really is. It's going to be a chat interface for their search engine And they're still going to offer up, you know, yelp reviews or this or that. I mean they're still going to be able to monetize this and then sponsored references and whatnot. In the same way, it's just really a different user interface paradigm And I think so.

Jody Haneke: 16:33

I think we'll see. I mean everybody's kind of like waiting and seeing kind of how things go. But Google's definitely putting the the pedal down on this And I think, i think I think Google has an opportunity to continue to be, you know, the absolute leader in search. I think we'll see independent like assets, like you know, yelp or this or that, or Expedia or whatever, still exploit this within their own column. And then I see, you know, apple having the opportunity to really, you know, give us what we all wanted when we were kids in the 80s, which is like your C3PO or whatever you know more of that personalized experience.

Michael Notbohm: 17:07

Well, there's this guy. I was at this affiliate marketing event a couple of weeks ago and he's got an AI dog. Have you heard about this thing? What is that? It's like a robot but it's like a dog And it it basically like follows you, hangs out at your house just like a regular dog does, but it's a robot and they're like $130,000. Shoo, and he's like. He had his Instagram story up and he's bragging about it And I'm like you take it to the vet, you don't have to take it out or anything. I mean, the nice thing is is like it's a dog but you don't have to take it out. You know, does it look like a dog? Yeah, i mean, i can't remember the name of it, but if you, i'm sure if you Google like robotic AI dog, it'll come up.

Jody Haneke: 17:43

Well, I think I've spent more than $130,000 on animals over the course of my life.

Speaker 4: 17:48

Yeah, so the vet bills just keep going up and up. So maybe that's the way of the future right there, i don't know. And they'll outlive you too Yeah.

Michael Notbohm: 17:55

Right, yeah, i guess that you know what's crazy is. I was there's a rapper that was that came out and said if anyone comes out with any music that you know like is my voice but not me doing it, i'm going to sue them. And then there was something about Tupac having like a new album, because they're I guess you can play his voice in AI and then it'll sound just like him. You could write a new rap song and then it and then make that voice wrap it. Right, yeah.

Jody Haneke: 18:21

I think we're I mean, i legally, we're going to catch up to all that. I think Bruce Willis, recently, like he's he's not doing very well. He's got some some type of I don't know if it's dementia or something, but he, you know he's starting to have some issues with that And I think he just sold his voice like for that very reason, so that in order to use it it, you know, his trust gets paid or something or whatever. But I mean, i mean that's just a matter of time. You know, i remember in the late 80s, early 90s, when, like people were like sampling, like Led Zeppelin, like on the BC Boys license to ill album, and it was like no big deal And it was like wait a second, like you can't do that Right. So I think that'll go the same way as like the sample, you know, as far as licensing is concerned and whatnot.

Michael Notbohm: 19:03

Yeah Well, you talked earlier about like being Gen X and how much stuff's changed. Like CDs were always a big thing, you know you'd go get a new CD, and now I don't even have a CD player at home, or even in my car. I know you probably do, andrew, because you've had the same car for 35 years But 2008 didn't have Bluetooth yet.

Michael Notbohm: 19:22

But now everything's on Spotify or iHeart Radio or you know Apple, you know iTunes, et cetera. I mean, all of that stuff has changed so dramatically And I think that when you start looking at, like, the pace at which AI is being integrated into stuff, you know we talk.

Speaker 4: 19:38

Well, look, i mean, the first time I heard about chat CBT was when you were in Nashville, right?

Speaker 4: 19:42

We were sitting at dinner talking to that girl And she's telling us how she has it create stories for her kids to go to bed And that was the first time I'd heard about it. And then we fast forward, whatever it is five, six months, nine, six months, but and I mean it's everywhere Like you read about it everywhere, hear about it everywhere. I mean the implementation of that has been crazy as far as how fast it's spread.

Michael Notbohm: 20:05

How do you think real estate investors can use it Like you know, not just writing listing descriptions, but kind of like on a deeper level, like helping them find properties?

Jody Haneke: 20:15

Yeah, i mean I haven't done much testing to see what those results would be like, but I imagine I mean I mean, at the end of the day, i think the things you mentioned are perfect, like anything. the way that I look at it is, if you had an intern working for you, anything that you would ask that intern to go and research or go comb the web and find X, y and Z. If the answer to that question is like, if I had an intern, i would ask them to do this, then that's a good use case and see how well and and what would you do. You would get it back and you'd review it, right, you know you wouldn't feel like an intern just come in first assignment and just publish it or submit it to the court. Yeah, so I think it's. I think for now and in the short term it's going to. it's not eliminating jobs. I think the smart people will use it to be more efficient And I think it's going to shortcut a lot of the research work that people are doing and, potentially, some content generation.

Jody Haneke: 21:05

Now, being an artist and and you know I struggle with the generation, part of it, you know, and if you think about it, it's. I always I look at it like we mentioned sampling and mashups and all that kind of stuff. So I've been part of that culture my whole life. So I like the idea of like taking stuff and mashing it together. But you know, at at the end of the day that's what it's doing. You know what I mean. It's basically taking reference points to create something new, which is cool, you know, but I don't I'm not sure how far that's going to get away from like the human, human experience of creating art.

Michael Notbohm: 21:38

Well, what about? you know, like Rylan starts high school in the fall and you know writing. I remember writing book reports was pretty standard.

Michael Notbohm: 21:44

I mean, now you don't have to do that anymore. And you know the argument is, colleges and stuff have come out and said well, we know if you've used chat GTP, and now there's another AI tool that will take the chat GTP version and basically rewrite it so that it can't be you know, detected Right, yeah, i mean, that's like there was always a little bit of that though I mean the cut and paste feature even when I was in college, like yeah, but you could like plagiarism was a real thing, sure, but now you could literally take that same article and say rewrite this.

Jody Haneke: 22:14

So I mean, look, people will take shortcuts and they'll do the wrong thing. I mean, i think the right thing to do would be to ask chat GTP to write, write a report, read that report yourself and then rewrite it, like the same way that you would you if you went off and researched and read other people's articles on the same subject. it's still going to give you some context and some reference points. I think chat GTP would be the same thing. Just use it as an opportunity, as another reference point to then write the final product.

Michael Notbohm: 22:42

The question is will you do it? You know, like kids that are reading a book, that they really can't stand. Well, it goes back to parenting. Yeah, but they're just going to be like I'm not reading this. I'm just going to ask chat GTP to write me a book report, yeah, and then I'm going to use the other AI to make sure that they can't be detected.

Jody Haneke: 22:56

I think that I think that there's a difference between, like, generating a written document based on research and solving problems. Right, i think that's where, like, looking at this, you know the higher level thing, like, is this replacing humans or whatever? like you know, we do a lot of work where people come to us and they, they express a bunch of pain points Like, hey, we're having issues, you know, with, you know, like working in logistics, like we're, you know we've got truck drivers who you know get to a mill and they they have to get out of their truck and walk into a building and it's a whole big, cumbersome process. How can you guys take technology and solve that problem? I struggle to see like, how, like chat GTP I mean it might find some similar solutions out there case studies or whatever but to basically come up with a new, unique, innovative solution that hasn't been done before. I think jury's out on that still.

Michael Notbohm: 23:52

Yeah Well, that's the thing You're constantly learning, right? So, like, as the AI continues to evolve, i think it's just going to get smarter. For example, like we use a virtual assistant in the Philippines to make a ton of calls And mostly you know hey, do you want to cash off for your house? No, you know, go jump off a bridge, hang up, call again. Most people hate that job. The people in the Philippines love it, but the problem is they can't really go off script because they're not in real estate. So we give them a script, ask them this. This is the likely responses. But if they respond outside of that, the call pretty much just fails. And I think AI you could literally teach it. Here's the script. It'll sound, you know, you can make it sound like me.

Speaker 4: 24:34

I can do that Well, especially on the texting features, right? I mean you could train it to answer those text messages, i'm sure.

Michael Notbohm: 24:41

Right, yeah, if the person says this, respond with this And then and the difference between the AI and what's been out, because you could always do that, you know. Like, if you chat on a website, How can I help you? Here's like the couple options. But AI will learn, not just here's the responses It can actually learn based on. It can be any response and it'll just consistently get better and better. Yeah.

Jody Haneke: 25:06

I mean, the old school chatbots are just glorified like decision trees and multiple choice questions and answers.

Jody Haneke: 25:10

Right If they say this, then the answer is yes. Yeah, this is that's the game changer with this is what? but the use cases are the same, just as you described, like where are the use cases? Like, that's it right, a much better version of what you're doing with this outsourced Philippine model, a technology solution that incorporates like chatGPT, is going to perform way better than a human being in that scenario. I mean, that's the perfect use case for it.

Michael Notbohm: 25:31

Yeah, And you don't have to pay it hourly and you don't have to do benefits. I mean there's definitely going to be jobs that I think it will replace for sure.

Speaker 4: 25:40

Yeah, i mean I think, going back to kind of the real estate stuff, i had a conversation with a guy out of Atlanta a couple of weeks ago and they're in commercial real estate and they're using it a lot to kind of replace some of that upfront research like you were talking about. So they'll go in and they'll say give us the breakdown of the MSA of like Houston, you know what's the median household income, how many people are there? you know all the stuff that you used to have somebody go research and compile in a report, and now it's done like that And so you know that kind of like low level front person analyst. Maybe you're getting that disrupted a little bit.

Michael Notbohm: 26:17

Well, there's one that came across my Instagram the other day I think it's tomeai And you could so just like what you just said, like what's the Houston MSA, and it'll literally make a slideshow for you with PowerPoint slides, all designed with images and everything in like 30 seconds Right.

Jody Haneke: 26:36

I mean even folks that are in development like, hey, we're in this market, here's where the property is, here's what we're thinking we want to build, can we build in, how much will it cost? And so we get to the point where it's going to look at the local, city and state codes and think about all the research and data that goes into like the feasibility of like a development project.

Michael Notbohm: 26:56

Pricing, you know, right. And so the BARD one is the AI tool that uses active internet web right, whereas chat GTP just has its own database and it's not in real time updated, not yet, yeah, and BARD, i think, is I mean it's cool, right?

Jody Haneke: 27:11

So yeah, that's a good advantage.

Michael Notbohm: 27:15

Because it's a feasibility for this property here with pricing, blah, blah blah, And I think part of this whole thing is knowing what to ask it.

Jody Haneke: 27:23

Yeah, so there's people that are now specializing in basically like prompt masters. That's what they're going to market. As We know how to ask it, the right questions to get the right results, which is pretty interesting that that's actually a field now.

Michael Notbohm: 27:39

That's right, it does make a big difference. Remember that.

Speaker 4: 27:41

That's like the new, the new CO type stuff.

Michael Notbohm: 27:45

She was like when she was talking about real estate.

Michael Notbohm: 27:47

She's like write me a blog article about the Tampa Bay real estate market in the interest of somebody who's considering moving here or somebody that's relocating or somebody's moving from the Northwest And now it writes the article in the interest of that person, saying, well, you're used to a pretty hot, you know tax, heavy state, et cetera, et cetera, whereas, like, if you didn't write that it wouldn't. You know, it's just going to write like a pretty generic article, so you can kind of get as detailed as you want.

Jody Haneke: 28:15

Which is also part of that human aspect we were talking about earlier, which is you know like what problem you're trying to solve. You know, at the end of the day, i mean someone's got to generate the question and they have to relate that to a business goal or objective. You know that's. You know when is that gone?

Speaker 4: 28:32

Yeah, you know I'm curious, though. So a lot of what we talked about is sort of the making things more efficient and the productivity of it, which all sounds great. But the article that you wrote, though something you read last night, you touched on, i can remember the guy's name that left Google but is kind of speaking out against AI to a certain extent, like where's the, where's the concern on that side, and like the nefarious stuff that you think is realistic.

Jody Haneke: 28:57

Well, i mean, the government's getting involved, right? So, you know, trying to look at regulation around these things, and I think the biggest issues that people are talking about is, you know, misinformation, you know the deep fake type stuff, you know propaganda, i mean there's a lot, a lot there, i mean. So I mean it is a powerful tool, i think, you know. I think it is something that we need to look at and maybe some regulation is in order. But I think, look at, you know, the same thing happened with the internet, same thing happened with e-commerce, like, oh my God, you're putting your credit card in a website.

Jody Haneke: 29:30

You know people start by fear and then we figure out how to live with something. You know sometimes there's bad outcomes. I mean there's a lot about social media. That's not great, sure, it hasn't been great for society, but then there's been a lot of good. There's a lot of people employed and you know growth of our country by the internet, internet technology. So I mean, i think, at the end of the day, i think some level of regulation, some level of policying, like do's or don'ts around its use and limitations, probably not a bad idea.

Michael Notbohm: 30:04

So do you think it's going to get much? you know, obviously it's going to keep evolving, but you know the basis of it I think we're all in agreement right now is more just efficiency. It's not actually replacing something.

Jody Haneke: 30:16

Well, that's what I'm saying. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, if it's plagiarizing for you is what it's doing? It's going out and finding everything that exists and trying to put it together in an intelligent narrative language, And you know that's helpful and that can shortcut research. But until it's making the decisions, it doesn't make the decisions. Now, Like, we make the decisions, we ask it. It's not operating on its own. When that happens, it's a whole different story. Why would we make that happen? You know what I mean? That's the other question. Sure.

Speaker 4: 30:51

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should Is that the basis of the Terminator.

Michael Notbohm: 30:54

Basically Yeah, pretty much Yeah, which I think that I mean there's definitely an element of fear, i think. I mean even I'm slightly concerned. You know, I love using it for efficiencies, but it is kind of scary, like how much has already happened with it and then what could possibly it evolve into?

Jody Haneke: 31:11

I mean, look, have we given it autonomy yet? Right, i mean, you know, i mean we ask it questions. Does it ask us questions? You know, i think you know that's a way to look at it too is, once we get to that point, you know, and we've got, i mean I guess we have had some of those scary back and forth conversations I don't know if you've seen some of those like reporters were asking it questions about do you value humans? and no, you know, like weird creepy responses and stuff. But still, i mean you know it takes us, prompting it, it takes us. you know it's not proactive in what it does right now. Yeah, which is again part of that. I think what people are trying to work out is like, you know, if we give it the ability to, you know, if we flip it around, you know then what happens.

Speaker 4: 31:52

So one of the things I keep coming back to here is it feels like to me there's a lot of like front end work that AI can do right.

Speaker 4: 32:01

Like we're going to cut down on some of the the more you know tedious tedious tasks and cut through some of the time expense, But at some point to human elements still has to step in when you're developing something. And I'm just curious about if there's a look at this from like the back end. Do you guys take that into consideration as like how far can it go before it has to get a human touch?

Jody Haneke: 32:25

I mean everything that we design and develop. We look at where those inflection points are. Where in this process does something need to be moderated or reviewed? That's a constant part of what we do when we design a solution And in some cases we want to automate as much as possible, but obviously we need to verify and eliminate errors. So we're always of that money set and the decisions really are a collaboration between us and the client. Like, hey, where do you think it's safe to let this go versus where do you think you want somebody to put their eyes on this and ensure that the information is accurate? Yeah, and I mean for right now, i think we'll see a lot of that. We'll see a lot of using it, machine learning and big data in order to basically take a large amount of information, reduce that down to something more manageable and then have that reviewed by a human being as more of the standard use case, especially in finance and things of that nature, insurance stuff like that.

Michael Notbohm: 33:26

So you deal with, obviously, a variety of different industries. Aside from AI, is there any other tech stuff that is kind of emerging and cool?

Jody Haneke: 33:35

So I mean, i look at the big shifts, right, and I think we're in the third big shift of my lifetime probably ours too. We're about the same age, but obviously actually probably four. I think the obviously the personal computer is a big one, then the internet itself, mobile technology, the smartphone and now AI. I think that that's kind of the next. I'm pretty confident. That's the next big thing. Now, between like mobile and now we have like Web 3, you know, and the whole Bitcoin fiasco, if you will, a lot of people were saying that you know, hey, that's the next big thing and everything's going to move to the blockchain, blah, blah, blah. I don't think that's the case. I think there's a lot of hype around that, but I'm pretty confident. As far as AI is concerned, it's here to stay.

Michael Notbohm: 34:30

I mean blockchain does make a lot of sense. I mean we talked about it in title.

Speaker 4: 34:35

Everybody talks about it in title, and then I ask a question and nobody can. I don't know how that would work. I've never been able to get that.

Jody Haneke: 34:40

Here's the thing and I'll be perfectly honest, I've never bought any cryptocurrency in my life because I honestly never understood it. I never understood, like, the value of the coins. Somebody explained blockchain to me. I'm like, oh, that makes sense. Like why are we not using that for more things, to have these?

Michael Notbohm: 34:59

contracts. I know the artist really moving to that. To like this is a real original piece of art. There's the blockchain that backs it up.

Jody Haneke: 35:07

I don't get that, but the hype almost overshadowed any of the actual commercial applications. I think people were too interested in gambling on crypto.

Michael Notbohm: 35:19

Well, when you can make your own coin over the weekend and now you have a cryptocurrency that's crazy Again.

Jody Haneke: 35:26

it didn't have this worldwide implication. AI does Again, if you look at, what does that mean? what is the internet Like? the internet is search. Everything about the internet is search. It's the internet. it's indexed and we search it, and then when we get to a site, we search in that site. So we're talking about a totally new way of doing all of that. That's pretty enormous. And how that's going to shake out, and is Google still going to own it, that's big. So I think we're at a really big inflection point right now.

Jody Haneke: 36:00

I think ARVR was in there too, and Apple just came out with their new headset. We'll see. I mean, yeah, that looks pretty sick. It looks very cool, but people are knocking it like ski goggles blah, blah, blah. The big issue there is, unlike your smartphone, which is in your pockets right now, even though I don't see it, that can be ubiquitous, like walking around with these goofy goggles on your head, everyone doing that. that's not happening. So I've said this since we've done a lot of ARVR projects, but until we have glasses that just look like glasses, it's going to be tough for that to become like a super ubiquitous thing and not just something nerds do in their bedrooms. I can see that.

Michael Notbohm: 36:39

I think Snapchat has sunglasses now. They look like normal sunglasses, but you're actually doing Snapchat. That's scary, i know.

Jody Haneke: 36:47

I mean commercial applications. if you look at people that work at Boeing and they need to fix airplane engines and they put on one of those headsets and they literally had the instruction manuals or reference schematics and whatnot while they were working on things like okay, you know, there's situations where commercialization of that technology I think makes sense, but as far as it being just this thing that everyone is doing and has, like a smartphone, not yet.

Michael Notbohm: 37:14

Well, think about it I know we were talking the other day about that one of your first projects, that really big project, the World Trade.

Jody Haneke: 37:20

Center one right. So we built an interactive application that they rent to visitors at the One World Trade Center.

Michael Notbohm: 37:26

And it's an iPad, basically right now.

Jody Haneke: 37:28

The version that we launched with a few years ago is an iPad. Yep, and interesting story about that. We wanted we explored doing that as an AR application. So it would use the camera on the backside of the iPad to basically know what you were looking at at the window. And we went up there to do some research and testing and it was a cloudy day And you could barely see things and there's no way that image recognition was going to work based on that.

Jody Haneke: 37:54

So, and we also realized that walking around with a tablet like in front of your face is not very safe when you've got steps and you've got people in front of you. So that's like a lot of the work that we do is like not just like, hey, go build the software, but like go see and feel how this gets used in real life. So what we did was we actually photographed a 360 degree panoramic and put it inside of the iPad, and then, as you move the iPad around, so does the pano, and we were able to offset that, so you didn't have to hold it in front of your face. You know what you see straight in front of you if you look down is the same view. And then we provided little hotspots on there. You could okay, i'm looking at the Empire State Building tap it, we fly out the window and give like a 10, 20 second overview, educational overview of 128 different locations.

Michael Notbohm: 38:43

So that could be something that could shift to the goggles.

Jody Haneke: 38:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, i could for sure, but, like you know, cost like $3,500, i think I mean above three grand per that becomes pretty hard to do from a business model perspective. But it can be more of like a premium type solution or whatever And we're actually looking at maybe offering that up Well in Plasma TVs were like 10 grand when they first came out and now you can get like a 65 inch for 400 bucks at Walmart.

Michael Notbohm: 39:10

I mean it's crazy, like so all that stuff? I'm sure will come down, but it's just wild to see all the stuff that's happening. Yeah, it is How quickly it's happening.

Jody Haneke: 39:17

Yeah, and again, like I said, everybody. You look at each thing and you say, like, does this have? like does this impact everyone? ARVR has not impacted everyone so far, like you're going to be. You know, a certain type of person or individual who wants to geek out on that and has the money to pay for it. The blockchain stuff, i mean it really the commercialization of that never really happened right, so it had a certain number of folks that were kind of in that space and obsessing with it. Where we're at now with AI and things like chat, gpt it has, it will have an impact for every single individual who interacts with the web, whether it's through a web browser or a mobile application.

Speaker 4: 39:56

Yeah. So what's your advice for kind of the next generation? And I kind of lay this out in the sense of I was at an economic summit meeting the other day and the economist was talking about the shift from the 70s into the 80s where we kind of left manufacturing and we went into more of like a service focus sector And everybody was going to become accountants and physicians and attorneys, et cetera. It seems like we're coming out of that and we probably have already come out of that. But what's your advice to, like you know your own kids in college and people going to college. like what are they? what should they be looking at from a standpoint of like this these are going to be the hot jobs for the next 20 years.

Jody Haneke: 40:39

So I'll go back to what I was originally trained to do, which is to creatively solve problems. Not simply do research, not simply data mine, not simply perform repeatable tasks, but to literally be able to jump in, understand a business, understand what challenges they're having with top line revenue, bottom line revenue, what types of user support issues they're having, and then basically invent something that never existed before. I'm still confident that solving problems using creative processes and design thinking, things of that nature, that's still not going to say future proof, because who knows? you know what I mean. But as of right now and kind of where things are going, i think that those, the people that can figure out how to solve problems, how to ask chat, gpt, the right questions, right, you know, for now, those people are going to be in a good spot And we've known this for a while.

Jody Haneke: 41:39

Right, we've known with outsourcing and we've known where we're going as a country and as an educated society, that you know the knowledge workers that are really dealing in like solution architecting and things of that nature are going to be, you know, much more marketable that somebody's research analyst, right? So that would be. My advice is just understand, like, what path you're taking and say, like you know, am I part of the solution generation process for this, whatever it is, you know, or am I just a piece of the machine that's working on repeatable tasks?

Michael Notbohm: 42:11

Because those are likely the ones that'll be replaced, correct, yeah?

Speaker 4: 42:15

Good advice.

Michael Notbohm: 42:16

Well, i think I've learned a lot. Cool. I think Andrew is, I mean, i would say, out of all my friends, probably the least tech savvy, and it's well, he kept up pretty good.

Speaker 4: 42:25

I was going to say it's pretty cool to see This actually makes more sense to me than like I can't stand. He gives me a lot of time. I hate Google Drive Like don't send me something.

Michael Notbohm: 42:33

He'll ask me something. I'm like dude, so many different drives.

Jody Haneke: 42:35

You know You're like I have to log it. Can you just send me a screenshot? Yeah, I want to look at it on my phone. I don't want to click a link and then log in.

Michael Notbohm: 42:44

But we did have a Skype call this morning and he got on there No problem. I mean, I was on a phone device too, Yeah leaps and bounds.

Speaker 4: 42:50

It called my cell phone and I actually got on it through an iPad. So yeah, i'm making big steps.

Michael Notbohm: 42:55

Well, hey, thanks for coming on today. We certainly appreciate it. I think all of us can take some pearls of wisdom away from this AI chat and hopefully integrate it into our own businesses.

Speaker 4: 43:04

Yeah, it's going to be interesting to watch moving forward, for sure.

Jody Haneke: 43:07

Yeah. So, we'll maybe do this again in a year and see what actually happens. I was going to say it'd be kind of cool to see where we're at.

Michael Notbohm: 43:12

Yeah, Until next time onward.

Andrew Hoek: 43:15

Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Legacy Wealth Code podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, click subscribe now and never miss an episode Until next time onward.